What is the difference between donations and stats selling?

This round I saw many of my friends got banned due to braking rule #10, which states: It is forbidden to sell or trade accounts and stats. It is forbidden to buy credits from a seller not listed on the "credits" page.

I know who of them broke the rules and who of them did not, so I have a question to the crew, what are the criteria to get banned for that? Is it really enough for you to receive a ticket from a random person who is faking the Skype conversation that user is buying or selling stats and user will get banned even though user does not have any clue this kind of treat being made behind his back.

In this case there is no real thing in TheCrims game like stats donations, since I can force people to tell that they are selling stats by offering the price on which they cannot refuse the deal and when I will copy this conversation to you, you will hold this as stats selling and ban my competitor by letting me win medal of my country or, lets go wider, international top. By saying this I also telling you that you making bugs not on the code you are making but also in the crew where fake information can cause huge differences in the tops.

Lets take XxShakesPearexX lets say that he made his team in RR61 nobody knew that, only him and people which he wanted in his crew, so I am forwarding to McLarenNr1 and FriQ they got banned because of the stats selling to XxShakesPearexX. When they got reply you said there was no clear state that they are representing them as a crew, so in order to be represented I have to post non stop everywhere that they are my crew members and that they have stats so they would be hunted down and milked down? Stupid... This also goes to the Sicylia team, okay lets be honest they represented them selves as a team well, they donated stats back and forth, but still I am sure if you would want you could see stats selling over there also, they can give stats at day 20 and pass credits day 40, isn't that selling stats? It is, so lets get back to the McLaren and FriQ they milked them selves and got credits to go hunt more stats to let leader win medal.

You look down on blind information if there is a coincidence that person got milked down and got support for his further work they will be all held as sellers. Fight chat I think is the best stats and credits washing machine, you cant track people there that good as they come and go all the time, all of us sold stats there in some cases even though we did not know that at all that we are breaking rule #10.

So TC crew, I hope you have a good explanation on this issue or at least open my eyes more that I could understand what is going on in this game, because now I see that RR62 is all based on corruption. I believe a lot of players will support me that you should answer this question good, because if no, more similar posts will going to your way soon.

Regards,
Truth seeker.

[Frazer]

Hi Serb0.

The basic difference is that when you sell stats you are exchanging them for something. This could be credits or cash.

When you are donating stats you are only giving them, in return for nothing at all.

[TheUnd3ad]

Hi Serb0.

The basic difference is that when you sell stats you are exchanging them for something. This could be credits or cash.

When you are donating stats you are only giving them, in return for nothing at all.

Tell me 2 things:

1 - If I make a report telling that im sure that someone was buying stats via bank transaction, would u open a legal process in the country of the person to get acess to this information?? If the answer is ''no, we are not going to do this'' , why did u said abt money transaction?? Pls, make this get some sense, its not clear for me.


2 - If someone was selling me stats during the round, how could u prove with facts (logs from panel) that i was receiving something by this?? The same way that someone can donate stats to his/her friend, couldnt this person donate credits?? By the way, whats the main diference between receive credits by donation and receive credits as a payment??


I want to keep an construtive debate around this subject, so it would be nice if u answer that question so that we can keep on this.

Player A donates stats to player B. Player B donates 100credits to player A after 20tc days. Is that considered stats selling? Is that considered irrelevant fact? Is that considered help from player B to player A without regarding the stats that were given 20tc days before? Can anyone prove anything? What if the credits from player B were sent to player A not after 20tc days but after 1tc day? After 2hours? After 30minutes? Can anyone prove anything again?
If I understand correctly what serb0 says i summed up everything in the above lines. And I would really like to see rule10 clarified regarding the above example

[wenezuelo]

Guys, you go a step too far with your conjectures. I am not able to address all the above points, however what I can do is to mention few facts that will clarify things.

Fact no1: There are houndred of interactions between each players daily, stats and credits are moving around all the time. Do you really think we are going to ban all players that gained some stats or credits from others? Even that someone got stats from his friends and later/before donated him creds that doens't mean it has to be trade. That means it is something worthy to check more carefully.

Fact no2: We are receiving a lot of reports and tickets every day. Some of them relate to rule #10. Now, do you really think we blindly believe in these reports just like that? Or that number of tickets affects abuse decision? Let me tell you statistics, for 20-25 trade reports per round we receive, there is only 1-2 ban cases relating to the sale of stats. We don't take any action before we check each report very carefully if it fits with true.

Fact no3:We don't make decisions based on print screens only (false or true that is second thing we won't solve here). That is although indication for us to take a closer look on that. We collect together all the gathered information and then check whether it harmonizes each other.

I guess that these facts won't fully dispel your doubts guys, but please keep in mind we can't fully share here our "secret abuse methods". Not because we have something to hide from honest players, but from cheaters. All info we spread can be used against us, as cheaters will hide their "dirty business" more smart.

Summing up, since many rounds we ban for trade just couple of times and only when we are quite sure about (ofc these "innocent" guys will come up and scream, but do not be fooled). If someone feel unsure if he can be banned for simple donation, then answer is no. If you're not doing anything wrong, then sleep calmly. But if you're coming here try to get knowledge how to hide your trade, then no mercy for you.

Peace!

Yes, Wenesuelo, you are right, I know that you do not ban only from tickets, you check the relations, registries and other stuff which you can get from the database information which is gathered.

I think you will agree more or less, that smart people who are writing here, will discuss many solutions how trade can be done and invent more and more genius ideas to trade stats and it will be harder and harder to find them out, what will later cause you to completely even forget rule 10 or drastically change game road.

My fact is that more or less people who are discussing here, can easily make their own points for what they can be banned and for what not, since you are slowly but surely starting to interact with this topic we will all find out the points for what we can get ban and for what not.

OFF TOPIC: I would also like to know if in this topic can be other rules discussed or no, since I have some questions about them and I had some information that I could be banned for some of them, even though I play fair. But I prefer to wait a little bit longer and only then start those questions and analyze them with TC players and crew.

[McLarenNr1]

Hello,
Very nice Serb0' poste.The problem is Head of Abuse reads rules as he wants and just he knows how the rules should work. Even game managers are afraid to tell something to that new TC GOD. Tell us how u know if somebody got cash for selling stats? Did u check bank account's or what? Some time ago I was banned and Wenesuelo wrote me this :"We are not leaking any "evidence" from panel to our players. We are checking reports
about suspected moves, gather information and then compare it with game logs. No
decisions are made solely on the basis of any messenger logs, so there are no
grounds to think so." How u know I sold stats, explain me please. U cant explain coz u don't have any evedence and u ban people on reports u like more. So this game became report's complains game. Who is better in reports, is better in TC.

Sorry, but either you did not read the full article or you only answered Topic question or you simply trying to hide something. Firstly I think it is very obvious about that. I stated couple of examples how process is working and I wanted directly answers to that to start a wider conversation about that.

Never the less from your reply if I understood right you just gave a new way for stats transferring which would be based on trust. Then it would be no matter if the players are in crew or not, the main thing would be the delay of the money or credit transfer after or before milk. When you will scan those transactions you will just think "Oh just a crew members playing around". In this way it would be the same as donating from your point of view, but for players it will be selling stats. Now I can assure you that you will say this will also be held as a stats transfer then, my new question is:

Why people who milking down and giving stats to the leader and after couple of normal days receiving credits for that are not being banned?
That is a good question and I want a good answer to it also, because people who got banned instantly who received credits right after are innocent, what if they did not even want the credits but the nice leader sent him a reward for his good work and someone made a ticket on them due to leaked information.

Also what if people who is really buying stats sending credits to the seller and after that seller sends half of the credits back to the buyer. This would be hard to find out if the user did buy stats or no, what can be also called as money washing.

[Frazer]

As you probably are aware, bans for rule #10 are few and far between. This is for the exact reasons that you mention above... Its difficult to prove where a violation has taken place. Often there are only a few accounts banned for this every round. Abuse crew will only act on these when there is solid evidence provided which also fits with logs. They are investigated when there are numerous reports coming in about the same people. These reports are then checked with the logs along with any further information they have received. Additional information can and will ONLY be used as secondary evidence, and abuse will only use this to compare against the logs of the user. Each round there are many reports sent in regarding possible #10 violations but these are verified and only a very small % turn out to be true and are acted upon.

I am very sure that your topic here has been created as a result of the #10 bans this round. Abuse Crew will not discuss these bans here, but you can rest assured that the players involved will be answered in full at the SC.

Regards

Frazer

At the beginning I was worried about the other players, I will admit that, it was mainly used for this issue. Now I am aware that I can get banned it some player or a crew who is always fallowing me can turn against me because for ex: I set a GA on them and this lead to the loyalty termination at the end. So the story leads to that I am becoming an enemy to them and they find out that I join a crew of other competing for international top. So they tracking me and they see that I milked myself to the one of the crew guys and after that I can kill more people/hunt them to get more stats and bail out for less money from jail. Later that day I post a name and a credit donation that the guy whom I gave my stats transfer me credits so I would not spend money and keep my respect instead. My enemies on whom I turned my back starts to report on my tickets nonstop asks to other random people to write a ticket on me. You check those tickets and you see that some information is not correct in some cases or leads to some misunderstandings. Enemies don't give up and makes secondary information on me - false screenshot of chat where I say:

Me:"So what I gave my stats and I received credits to get more stats and save my respect"
Enemy:"So you sold the stats, noob?"
Me:"Think what you want idiot, you screwed me I screwed you we have nothing in common"

So as we can see here, pretty much smart people will look up as a sarcasm and understand this as a non-giving information print screen, but crew sees that as a correct answer that he sold stats and he gets banned. This is not correct ban... I should be banned because I milked myself in RR61 to Hooli to give him kills and after that I paid credits for that, this is also selling stats, just let’s call it for now as a "force selling", this should also lead to a ban, I can even then if it will not work can fake a conversation and get him ban...

So my further question since I am aware to get ban in further rounds if I will play: What are the rules to stay out of bans even if I have hard times between gangs and information that is not correct leads me to a ban. Specify the points, on which exactly you get banned and on which you won’t, since now I am not aware only on myself now, but on many other people who can get into this kind of misunderstanding.

Once again yours faithfully,
Truth seeker...